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gjâ-zym-byn website
David J. Peterson's gjâ-zym-byn text | Jim Henry's corrected gjâ-zym-byn text |
nu-sǒ i ħun-tôn θij θâŋ-twâl-van mje mâ-vĭ-ĵĭn tu-i. nî'šĭm kâ-i žâ-van ƥ tu-i. čyw pen kâ-i sru-van rĭm-van ƥ ʝâr-i, mǒj nu-šar ruŋ-sun-zô nî'šĭm mĭ-i, te kâ-i ðu-van heŋ rĭm-zô ƥ ʝâr-i. ƥ mĭ-i bĭw-bô jâ-o, nu-šar lârm-gĭn- zô. mâ-vĭ-ĵĭn voj ruŋ-zô mâ-ŝy-ĵĭn tu-i, nu-šar ƥ-vĭ ŋâw-o frâ-zô ƥ-ŝy tu-i., gân-lǒ lârm-van ƥ-vĭ ʝâr-i. twâ-zô ƥ tu-i Φǒ {*čyw pen kâ-i ðu-van heŋ rĭm-zô}. ƥ- vĭ ŋâw-o twâ-zô mâ-ŝy-ĵĭn tu-i hǒŋ ħun-tôn θř ruŋ-zô mwe ƥ-vĭ. |
vĭj sǒ i ħun-tôn θij θâŋ-twâl-van mje mâ-vĭ-ĵĭn tu-i.
nî'šĭm kâ-i žâ-van ƥ |
Once a boy sat under a tree. He was waiting for night. He wanted to see the stars, but when night came he could not see them. He was sad and started crying. A girl came and asked him why he was crying. He said “I cannot see the stars!”. The girl told him to move away from the tree.
From: Jim HenryDate: Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 7:59 PM Subject: Re: Inverse Relay Text To: David Peterson > From: David J. Peterson > Date: 24-Jun-2007 04:05 > Subject: Inverse Relay Text Just a couple of corrections of actual errors, then some stylistic comments. > nu-sǒ i ħun-tôn θij θâŋ-twâl-van mje mâ-vĭ-ĵĭn tu-i. > nî'šĭm kâ-i žâ-van ƥ tu-i. čyw pen kâ-i sru-van rĭm-van ƥ > ʝâr-i, mǒj nu-šar ruŋ-sun-zô nî'šĭm mĭ-i, te kâ-i ðu-van "mǒj vĭj lǒ i nî'šĭm jâ-o sun-bô purj, ....." but when the environment entered the night-state.... "ruŋ-zô" means "going/coming/moving from place to place", and isn't used metaphorically for changes of state. > heŋ rĭm-zô ƥ ʝâr-i. ƥ mĭ-i bĭw-bô jâ-o, nu-šar lârm-gĭn- "rĭm-van" > zô. mâ-vĭ-ĵĭn voj ruŋ-zô mâ-ŝy-ĵĭn tu-i, nu-šar ƥ-vĭ > ŋâw-o frâ-zô ƥ-ŝy tu-i., gân-lǒ lârm-van ƥ-vĭ ʝâr-i. "gân-lǒ-ř lârm-van" I'm not sure I wouldn't use interrogative "gân-nǒ-ř" rather than relative "gân-lǒ-ř" in an indirect quote context like this. I'll have to think about it. > twâ-zô ƥ tu-i Φǒ {*čyw pen kâ-i ðu-van heŋ rĭm-zô}. ƥ- > vĭ ŋâw-o twâ-zô mâ-ŝy-ĵĭn tu-i hǒŋ ħun-tôn θř ruŋ-zô > mwe ƥ-vĭ. Stylistics: "nu sǒ i" might work better as "vĭj sǒ i" -- in either case without a hyphen. Since you've got the agent or experiencer at the end of most sentences, you can omit "tu-i" or "ʝâr-i" in those places. That includes the last sentence, > ƥ- > vĭ ŋâw-o twâ-zô mâ-ŝy-ĵĭn [tu-i] hǒŋ ħun-tôn θř ruŋ-zô > mwe ƥ-vĭ. because "hǒŋ" ends the main clause and starts the subordinate clause, and you have the agent of the main clause right before "hǒŋ". Also, there are several places where you might have embedded the subject pronoun into the verb, e.g.: "nî'šĭm kâ-i žâ-ƥ-van." The disambiguation of pronouns as "ƥ-vĭ" and "ƥ-ŝy" isn't necessary in every place you used them; for instance, I might have written something like mâ-vĭ-ĵĭn voj ruŋ-zô mâ-ŝy-ĵĭn, nu-šar ƥ-vĭ ŋâw-o frâ-ƥ-zô, gân-lǒ-ř lârm-ƥ-van . It was a great pleasure to read your text and understand it at once. I said when we were planning the relay, > Besides, you get to enjoy the fun of reading > text in your conlang that you didn't write > -- that would be a big plus in this kind of relay for > those who are trying to become fluent in their conlangs. > When you reread text you wrote yourself, > how can you tell how much of your comprehension > of it is really due to parsing and understanding > it linguistically, and how much due to just being > reminded of what you were thinking when you wrote it? And it was nice to have this additional confirmation that gjâ-zym-byn really "works", even though I've been using it for years. -- Jim Henry http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry From: David J. Peterson Date: Sun, Jul 29, 2007 at 12:49 AM Subject: Re: Inverse Relay Text To: Jim Henry Hi Jim, This is long overdue, but I thought I'd give you some comments on your comments. << but when the environment entered the night-state.... "ruŋ-zô" means "going/coming/moving from place to place", and isn't used metaphorically for changes of state. >> I'll think you'll find with an inverse relay like this, participants will resort to metaphorical extension far more than they would in even their own artlangs. It's useful! << Also, there are several places where you might have embedded the subject pronoun into the verb, e.g.: "nî'šĭm kâ-i žâ-ƥ-van." >> I must admit, I didn't feel comfortable with this practice, for whatever reason, so I opted not to. I liked the free-standing ones. It might have to do with the following: << The disambiguation of pronouns as "ƥ-vĭ" and "ƥ-ŝy" isn't necessary in every place you used them; for instance, I might have written something like mâ-vĭ-ĵĭn voj ruŋ-zô mâ-ŝy-ĵĭn, nu-šar ƥ-vĭ ŋâw-o frâ-ƥ-zô, gân-lǒ-ř lârm-ƥ-van . >> I went ahead and played it safe pretty much everywhere because of the nature of the translation--i.e., a relay. Going into a language where there is no gender (or where gender is optional), it's often best to make an effort to make sure the genders are distinguished in some way to preserve the text. Well, if that's the goal. If you want to mess the text up, degendering--or neutering--it is a great way to do so. :) << It was a great pleasure to read your text and understand it at once. >> And that allows me to breathe a sigh of relay! At the outset, at least, I was afraid I was going to send off the text, and you were going to e-mail me back saying, "This is just a bunch of random words strewn about the page; I can't make sense of it at all." Success! I do think it wasn't as hard as others were making it out to be. Whether the fact that I was generating the text and your website was well documented had a lot to do with this, I can't say, but the task, at least, didn't seem insurmountable to me. Hope we can do it again, and get a larger turnout! -David ******************************************************************* "A male love inevivi i'ala'i oku i ue pokulu'ume o heki a." "No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." -Jim Morrison http://dedalvs.free.fr/ From: Jim Henry Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2007 at 11:37 AM Subject: Re: Inverse Relay Text To: "David J. Peterson" On 7/29/07, David J. Peterson wrote: > I'll think you'll find with an inverse relay like this, participants > will resort to metaphorical extension far more than they would > in even their own artlangs. It's useful! Probably so. > I went ahead and played it safe pretty much everywhere > because of the nature of the translation--i.e., a relay. Going > into a language where there is no gender (or where gender > is optional), it's often best to make an effort to make sure > the genders are distinguished in some way to preserve the > text. Well, if that's the goal. If you want to mess the text up, > degendering--or neutering--it is a great way to do so. :) That makes sense. > it at all." Success! I do think it wasn't as hard as others were > making it out to be. Whether the fact that I was generating > the text and your website was well documented had a lot to > do with this, I can't say, but the task, at least, didn't seem > insurmountable to me. Hope we can do it again, and get a > larger turnout! Yes, let's. Maybe next Spring or thereabouts, after the next regular relay and before LCC3? -- Jim Henry http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry
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Last updated February 2008